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Religion has nothing to do with the business of the state.


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Religion has nothing to do with the business of the state.
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raptorcaptor
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Religion has nothing to do with the business of the state.
Quote:
Religion in politics


In a move aimed at reviving the spirit of Bangladesh’s original 1972 constitution which barred religion in politics, the Bangladesh Supreme Court recently lifted a four-year stay on an earlier ruling. As a result, the country’s dozens of Islamic political parties can no longer campaign under the banner of religion, and are likely to be forced to drop the religious reference from their names. The court declared as void ab initio the relevant fifth amendment to the constitution, which was carried out in 1979 during a Bangladesh Nationalist Party government. It allowed religion-based politics — which then flourished.

Given that Bangladesh has amongst the world’s largest Muslim populations, this is a quantum leap forward. The court decision, if upheld during appeals, will affect scores of powerful political parties and their voters, including the BNP now in the opposition. Yet it is worth noting that the verdict does not affect Islam’s constitutional status as the state religion or religious text that was incorporated in the constitution. Implicit, therefore, is the recognition that whatever the dominant religion, the business of the state and politics must be conducted independently; and that far from yielding benefits in terms of just and legitimate governance, the confluence of religion and politics can wreak havoc on a country’s political fabric.

Pakistan would do well to dwell on this. Religion, when enmeshed with politics, can deepen polarities and derail the examination of issues from the perspective of logic and the aggregate national benefit. We have seen, for example, how politics and state policies underpinned by religious diktat can lead to laws that are discriminatory and can be used as tools for victimisation. The Qisas and Diyat Act, the Hudood and the blasphemy laws are cases in point. At the very least, a political fabric woven from religion will either dismiss minorities and their rights, or polarise politics between dominant and minority religions. Pakistan made the state the custodian of religion through the 1949 Objectives Resolution, which was later made the preamble to the constitution by the Zulfikar Ali Bhutto government and added as an annex by Ziaul Haq. Although religious parties have not historically fared well in elections, Pakistan’s politics have, over successive decades, been coloured by religion. The separation of religion and politics will, of course, neither automatically ensure justice nor guard against the misuse of religion. But it can be a first step towards delineating the private and public spheres. This may be a good time to revisit Mr Jinnah’s 1947 address to Pakistan’s first constituent assembly, when he eloquently stated that religion had nothing to do with the business of the state.
Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:49 am View user's profile Send private message
drkhalidfcps
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ALLAMA IQBAL : 'JUDA HO DEN SIYASAT SE TO REH JATI HAI CHANGEZI"
Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:53 pm View user's profile Send private message
punjabiii
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yes. religion have no place in the politics. that's why east is backward and west is forward
Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:55 am View user's profile Send private message
HasanK
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Religion gives us moral values and wayz of life and politics is the way of executing those fundamentals......But those parties which get the votes on the basis of religion rather then thier acheivements and development should be banned ...Also Nationalistic parties should also be banned from going into vote as it creates more division rather than reconciliation.....So PML-N,PPP,MQM, and ANP ,MMA are major parties in this category and they should be barred from getting into office...I refer to ppp owing to the statement of yousuf raza gilani who said in his recent speech that his family is responsible for making Quade Azam family a Muslim and also Babar Awan who is also corrupt but do the Islamic program on one channel as well and both belong from PPP.....
Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:09 am View user's profile Send private message
punjabiii
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HasanK wrote:
Religion gives us moral values and wayz of life and politics is the way of executing those fundamentals......But those parties which get the votes on the basis of religion rather then thier acheivements and development should be banned ...Also Nationalistic parties should also be banned from going into vote as it creates more division rather than reconciliation.....So PML-N,PPP,MQM, and ANP ,MMA are major parties in this category and they should be barred from getting into office...I refer to ppp owing to the statement of yousuf raza gilani who said in his recent speech that his family is responsible for making Quade Azam family a Muslim and also Babar Awan who is also corrupt but do the Islamic program on one channel as well and both belong from PPP.....


if you put religion into politics then there is no progress. look in the past.
Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:20 am View user's profile Send private message
drkhalidfcps
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Taking out religion from politics must not mean secularism. World has seen the ugly face of Indian secularism. There is no place for secularism in Pakistan. Pakistan is not a secular country. This is an Islamic state with majority of us being Muslims. We all love Islam and practice Islam. Politics if designed according to the teaching of Islam become the best way of life and government. If politicians themselves are corrupt then instead of taking out Islam or religion from the day to day affairs of life or from politics we should condemn these corrupt politicians instead of blamming religion to be the cause of our backwardness. Religion do not promote backwardness or corruption, nor it tells people to become corrupt. Rather it guide us to honesty, hooqooq ul ibad, cleanliness and loyalty to God, country and each other. If we are bad then religion should not be blammed for our problems.
Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:44 pm View user's profile Send private message
drkhalidfcps
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A peice copied from the Original Post

"Religion, when enmeshed with politics, can deepen polarities and derail the examination of issues from the perspective of logic and the aggregate national benefit. We have seen, for example, how politics and state policies underpinned by religious diktat can lead to laws that are discriminatory and can be used as tools for victimisation. The Qisas and Diyat Act, the Hudood and the blasphemy laws are cases in point. At the very least, a political fabric woven from religion will either dismiss minorities and their rights, or polarise politics between dominant and minority religions."

The statement is a typical misinterpretation of Islamic laws. This is not Islam but this is rather the people implementing these laws who should be blammed for all of this. The statemet typically shows the intention to take out ISLAM IN PARTICULAR OUT OF POLITICS RATHER THAN RELIGIONS AS A WHOLE as the author has criticised Islamic laws in particular. No body in Pakistn agree with this narrow Anti-Islamic approach. The author should have had the courage to have given exaples from other religions as well.
Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:57 pm View user's profile Send private message
kevin955
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drkhalid

Its human nature to exploit vulnerability of society. Politicians use every opportunity to take advantage of this human nature. Thats why religion like castism and other things should not be combined with Politics. In my opinion Politicians dont have religion, they just exploit weak segments of society by faking agendas of religion. Whether in Pakistan or India or any part of the World Politicians have same agendas that is to fool people and Religion is one of the tools for this extensively used by Politicians.

Not to mention, our Indian Politicians fool people by agendas of Hinduism and castism. You might be familiar with Bhartiya Janta Party (BJP).
Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:34 am View user's profile Send private message
pakister
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are you talking about a secular state or an islamic state? if the state has to be run on islamic values then religion is a part of it, infact all the state matters revolve around islam. But if you are talking about a secular state then yeah religion should be away from politics. But that rarely happens, even in secular states religion plays a huge part. Read american constitution..
Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:34 am View user's profile Send private message
malik7
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The statement is a typical misinterpretation of Islamic laws. This is not Islam but this is rather the people implementing these laws who should be blammed for all of this. The statemet typically shows the intention to take out ISLAM IN PARTICULAR OUT OF POLITICS RATHER THAN RELIGIONS AS A WHOLE as the author has criticised Islamic laws in particular. No body in Pakistn agree with this narrow Anti-Islamic approach. The author should have had the courage to have given exaples from other religions as well.
Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:14 am View user's profile Send private message
sarfarazlovesu
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Take your religion seriously Reply with quote

Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:41 am View user's profile Send private message
drkhalidfcps
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Dear kevin, I hope you are fine.

I totally agree with all of you that religion should not be used for exploitation but is it the religion only which is being used by people and politicians for this? Are politics, professions, economics, wealth and many others be allowed to be used as tools for exploitation? Today almost any thing like food and electricity prices, anti terrorism campaign, bird flue, internet ,big multinationals and even cross boarder tensions between two countries are being used by many to exploit masses in Pakistan, in India as well as all over the world. Why we should particularly be after the religion? Should'nt all the other tools be taken out? Can we take everything used as tools for exploitation out of the real world? I think not.

You will agree with me that all of the tools (including religion) are made to correct things. People use them wrongly and they need to be educated socially to correct the affairs. Taking out an essential tool from a toolbox will make things even more complicated. We need to take out the exploiters not the tool which is being used for the purpose. This is only possible through EDUCATING OUR PEOPLE and rejecting all extremist elements in our societies, in Pakistan and India as well as all over the underdeveloped world.
Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:06 am View user's profile Send private message
jkbarki
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For God sake speak truth. Reply with quote

For God sake, speak truth. Jinnah's message can not be quote in wrong way.
He meant that neither any one be hatred because of his religion nor any one be honored because of his religion by the state. How you can think us nuts. Don't you read the history? Who was the better ruler, Umer bin Hitab R.A or Yazid?
May be you think Genkiz Khan was the best ruler of the world.

Come to today politics. How many people are involved in NRO from Islamic Political Parties? What about the MQM and PPPP? How many people out of 8041 NRO beneficiaries are religious. Aren't all these dirty eggs belonging to MQM and PPP? Do you think MQM and PPP are religious parties that is why they are corrupt.
What type of progress do you want?
Kindly tell me another thing. Who is more educated, Qazi Hussain Ahmad or Altaf Hussain? Or you think Zardari is more educated than Syed Munawar Hassan. Does religion tells Nawaz Sharif to steal the sugar?
I would like you to kindly quote an example when and where religion stops you from progress?
May be you think all the progress a nudity or glamour.
Abn e alhasim, al-razi, khayam were not seculars. May be you think Dr. A Q Khan Dr. Samar Mobarakmand are secular.
Now a days look to Saudi Arabia, no saudi is serving any nation in the whole world and almost every nation serves KSA. What would you say about Islamic Republic Of Iran? Who lives better? Iranian or Bangalis?
What does your Europe say about the ban on Mosques' Menarets by Swiss govt? Would you like to put some light on ban on veils in France by French govt?


_________________
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Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:20 am View user's profile Send private message
drkhalidfcps
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Dear sarfarazlovesu,

Thanks for such a nice example for all of us. This is a typical example of how religion (ISLAM) was used by the Americans to humiliate Muslims, violating all international and human rights laws. The religion was used for exploitation but the other way round i.e. People were humiliated because they were Muslims.
We must have the courage to condemn such exploitations too, on the basis of religion. Condemning only Muslim countries is not fair.
Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:47 pm View user's profile Send private message
drkhalidfcps
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Re: For God sake speak truth. Reply with quote
jkbarki wrote:

For God sake, speak truth. Jinnah's message can not be quote in wrong way.
He meant that neither any one be hatred because of his religion nor any one be honored because of his religion by the state. How you can think us nuts. Don't you read the history? Who was the better ruler, Umer bin Hitab R.A or Yazid?
May be you think Genkiz Khan was the best ruler of the world.

Come to today politics. How many people are involved in NRO from Islamic Political Parties? What about the MQM and PPPP? How many people out of 8041 NRO beneficiaries are religious. Aren't all these dirty eggs belonging to MQM and PPP? Do you think MQM and PPP are religious parties that is why they are corrupt.
What type of progress do you want?
Kindly tell me another thing. Who is more educated, Qazi Hussain Ahmad or Altaf Hussain? Or you think Zardari is more educated than Syed Munawar Hassan. Does religion tells Nawaz Sharif to steal the sugar?
I would like you to kindly quote an example when and where religion stops you from progress?
May be you think all the progress a nudity or glamour.
Abn e alhasim, al-razi, khayam were not seculars. May be you think Dr. A Q Khan Dr. Samar Mobarakmand are secular.
Now a days look to Saudi Arabia, no saudi is serving any nation in the whole world and almost every nation serves KSA. What would you say about Islamic Republic Of Iran? Who lives better? Iranian or Bangalis?
What does your Europe say about the ban on Mosques' Menarets by Swiss govt? Would you like to put some light on ban on veils in France by French govt?


VERY NICE AND GOOD COMMENTS, WELL SAID.
Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:51 pm View user's profile Send private message
s0ul_mate1@yahoo.com
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drkhalidfcps wrote:
ALLAMA IQBAL : 'JUDA HO DEN SIYASAT SE TO REH JATI HAI CHANGEZI"

claping 4u....gr8 quote

_________________
________
ALLAHU...
Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:56 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
suzuran1511
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Sad
Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:03 pm View user's profile Send private message
HasanK
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Remember All Pakistanis that the forum Pakistan is being Invaded by the Arabic Salafis now a days...So do remember they pretend as Pakistanis and they promote the war by posting the bad videos...If americans are problematic for us then the Arabic funded are more dangerous as they support the TTP and defame the true image of Islam..so remember to root out the extremis Salafi brand of people from here and dont allow them to flourish here....
Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:56 pm View user's profile Send private message
kevin955
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drkhalidfcps wrote:
Dear kevin, I hope you are fine.

I totally agree with all of you that religion should not be used for exploitation but is it the religion only which is being used by people and politicians for this? Are politics, professions, economics, wealth and many others be allowed to be used as tools for exploitation? Today almost any thing like food and electricity prices, anti terrorism campaign, bird flue, internet ,big multinationals and even cross boarder tensions between two countries are being used by many to exploit masses in Pakistan, in India as well as all over the world. Why we should particularly be after the religion? Should'nt all the other tools be taken out? Can we take everything used as tools for exploitation out of the real world? I think not.

You will agree with me that all of the tools (including religion) are made to correct things. People use them wrongly and they need to be educated socially to correct the affairs. Taking out an essential tool from a toolbox will make things even more complicated. We need to take out the exploiters not the tool which is being used for the purpose. This is only possible through EDUCATING OUR PEOPLE and rejecting all extremist elements in our societies, in Pakistan and India as well as all over the underdeveloped world.


drkhalid

As i already mentioned, Religion is just one of the tool for Politicians too fool people. Ideally Politics should not be based on fake agendas. The problem is that in some states (mostly in 3rd world nations) religion is used extensively and very aggressively by Politicians to manipulate people. In India, there have been Anti-Sikh, Anti-Muslim, Anti-christian and even Anti-Brahmin Riots caused by Politics of religion. Hence emphasis should be laid on taking out religion out of Politics.

Apart from that. I Indian,if you might know, we live in society where Politicians take votes from poor people in return of Alcohol and few rupees. You see, these kind of people are very easy to influence on religion rather than other factors as they are illiterate and ignorant.
Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:26 am View user's profile Send private message
raptorcaptor
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I prefer secularism instead of theocracy. Reply with quote
I believe that religion is a private matter. A person can be a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddist etc. etc. but state should not follow the dictates of any religion. Turkey is the best example of this. A Muslim Majority country where state is not dictated by religion.

Quote:
Secular states in Asia:

People's Republic of China
Hong Kong
Macau
Republic of China (Taiwan)
East Timor
India
Japan
Kazakhstan
North Korea
South Korea
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Mongolia
Nepal
Philippines
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan
Vietnam

What is Secularism?
Quote:
Secularism is the concept that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs.

In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and freedom from the government imposition of religion upon the people, within a state that is neutral on matters of belief, and gives no state privileges or subsidies to religions. In another sense, it refers to the view that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact unbiased by religious influence.
In its most prominent form, secularism is critical of religious orthodoxy and asserts that religion impedes human progress because of its focus on superstition and dogma rather than on reason and the scientific method.

What is Theocracy?
Theocracy is a form of government in which a god or deity is recognized as the state's supreme civil ruler, or in a higher sense, a form of government in which a state is governed by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided. In Common Greek, “theocracy” means a rule [kra′tos] by God [the.os′]. For believers, theocracy is a form of government in which divine power governs an earthly human state, either in a personal incarnation or, more often, via religious institutional representatives , replacing or dominating civil government. Theocratic governments enact theonomic laws.
Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:58 am View user's profile Send private message
loje
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Re: For God sake speak truth. Reply with quote
jkbarki wrote:

For God sake, speak truth. Jinnah's message can not be quote in wrong way.
He meant that neither any one be hatred because of his religion nor any one be honored because of his religion by the state. How you can think us nuts. Don't you read the history? Who was the better ruler, Umer bin Hitab R.A or Yazid?
May be you think Genkiz Khan was the best ruler of the world.

Come to today politics. How many people are involved in NRO from Islamic Political Parties? What about the MQM and PPPP? How many people out of 8041 NRO beneficiaries are religious. Aren't all these dirty eggs belonging to MQM and PPP? Do you think MQM and PPP are religious parties that is why they are corrupt.
What type of progress do you want?
Kindly tell me another thing. Who is more educated, Qazi Hussain Ahmad or Altaf Hussain? Or you think Zardari is more educated than Syed Munawar Hassan. Does religion tells Nawaz Sharif to steal the sugar?
I would like you to kindly quote an example when and where religion stops you from progress?
May be you think all the progress a nudity or glamour.
Abn e alhasim, al-razi, khayam were not seculars. May be you think Dr. A Q Khan Dr. Samar Mobarakmand are secular.
Now a days look to Saudi Arabia, no saudi is serving any nation in the whole world and almost every nation serves KSA. What would you say about Islamic Republic Of Iran? Who lives better? Iranian or Bangalis?
What does your Europe say about the ban on Mosques' Menarets by Swiss govt? Would you like to put some light on ban on veils in France by French govt?



what do you mean exactly by " no saudi is serving any nation in the whole world and almost every nation serves KSA " is that bothering you ???

why you compare Umar ibn Al khatab with Yazid Radia Allah anhom ?
Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:03 pm View user's profile Send private message
loje
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HasanK wrote:
Remember All Pakistanis that the forum Pakistan is being Invaded by the Arabic Salafis now a days...So do remember they pretend as Pakistanis and they promote the war by posting the bad videos...If americans are problematic for us then the Arabic funded are more dangerous as they support the TTP and defame the true image of Islam..so remember to root out the extremis Salafi brand of people from here and dont allow them to flourish here....



Hey shiitte stop your false propagandas , you make me laugh Laughing

you want to destract your peaople's attention from thier real enemies to thier brothers in islam by saying such claims ? Laughing

good trick Smile

keep it up !
Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:13 pm View user's profile Send private message
loje
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Re: For God sake speak truth. Reply with quote
loje wrote:

what do you mean exactly by " no saudi is serving any nation in the whole world and almost every nation serves KSA " is that bothering you ???

why you compare Umar ibn Al khatab with Yazid Radia Allah anhom ?



if i got you right , then those who serves in saudi arabia they have been paid for what they are " serving "for , they are not " serving" for nothing
about saudis who doesnt work or " serve " in other nations then you dont know about all saudis , did you make Statistics to see who is working out of saudi araibia and who is not ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
even so , if no saudi works in other nation then there is nothing wrong in it , dont you think ??!

above all , i dont see the wisdom of mentioning Saudi arabia as your example !!!! Rolling Eyes
Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:30 pm View user's profile Send private message
kevin955
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Reply with quote
loje wrote:
HasanK wrote:
Remember All Pakistanis that the forum Pakistan is being Invaded by the Arabic Salafis now a days...So do remember they pretend as Pakistanis and they promote the war by posting the bad videos...If americans are problematic for us then the Arabic funded are more dangerous as they support the TTP and defame the true image of Islam..so remember to root out the extremis Salafi brand of people from here and dont allow them to flourish here....



Hey shiitte stop your false propagandas , you make me laugh Laughing

you want to destract your peaople's attention from thier real enemies to thier brothers in islam by saying such claims ? Laughing

good trick Smile

keep it up !




Zaid hamid has also said that certain elements so called scholars of Saudi Arabia are poisoning Pakistani minds.
Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:30 pm View user's profile Send private message
loje
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Reply with quote
kevin955 wrote:
loje wrote:
HasanK wrote:
Remember All Pakistanis that the forum Pakistan is being Invaded by the Arabic Salafis now a days...So do remember they pretend as Pakistanis and they promote the war by posting the bad videos...If americans are problematic for us then the Arabic funded are more dangerous as they support the TTP and defame the true image of Islam..so remember to root out the extremis Salafi brand of people from here and dont allow them to flourish here....



Hey shiitte stop your false propagandas , you make me laugh Laughing

you want to destract your peaople's attention from thier real enemies to thier brothers in islam by saying such claims ? Laughing

good trick Smile

keep it up !




Zaid hamid has also said that certain elements so called scholars of Saudi Arabia are poisoning Pakistani minds.


so , is that means his saying is right ??????

or even if we accept that this claim is true , then do you think people of pakistan are sooo dump to beleive without thinking what is wrong and what is right ??????

if there is some elements of so called scholars of saudi arabia are poisining pakistani minds then do you think that the original problem of what they are in now "and i mean here pakistan " are from those so called scholars ? or thier Lack of awareness , thier lack of education , and thier Dispersed??
Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:39 pm View user's profile Send private message
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