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Democracy Or Islamic System


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Reply to topic    Forum Pakistan - Pakistani Forums Home » Voting Booths
Democracy Or Islamic System

Democracy Or Islamic System...what u'll chose to anyone
Islamic system
68%
 68%  [ 17 ]
Democracy
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
Secularism
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 25

Author Message
CoolMind
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 885

Democracy Or Islamic System
Democracy, Secularism Or Islamic System...what u'll chose to anyone
Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:01 pm View user's profile Send private message
syedusmanshah
Pak Newbie


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 3

Reply with quote
Wrong Poll to start with anyways, Islamic or Shari'ah law is democratic.
Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:59 pm View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
I K QAZI
Moderator
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Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 16404
Location: Germany

Reply with quote
Rightly said by Syed Usman Shah.
Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:10 pm View user's profile Send private message
p_gal
Full PK Member
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Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 385
Location: Canada

Reply with quote
Democracy and Secularism is almost the same thing.
I don't think islamic system is democratic. For example, Caliphs were not selected in anyway by popular vote.
Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:55 pm View user's profile Send private message
chahsanashraf
Moderator
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Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 3142
Location: Bahawalpur Pakistan

Reply with quote
inayat khan qazi wrote:
Rightly said by Syed Usman Shah.

right

_________________
Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:28 pm View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
kdad
Pak Newbie


Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 1

Reply with quote
islamic system has no flaws we need to follow the system of the first 4 caliphs
Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:44 pm View user's profile Send private message
faiz1983
Pak Newbie


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 9

What is an Islamic System !! Reply with quote
I think when we speak about an Islamic system, we are speaking in a vacuum. Does an islamic political system refers to the political state in Medina, or does it refers to the state structure during the time of Abu Bakr(R.A) caliphate or Umar's (R.A) caliphate etc ....Caliphs were not elected through a democratic election in its entirety. After Abu Bakr(r.a) the subsequent caliphs were elected by a chosen group of companions rather than a massive electoral mandate. Finally, the situation at the time of Hazrat Ali's(r.a) election was completely different.

Furthermore, what should be the structure of judiciary and the legal system. Will the laws of that era be applicable ? including, slave ownership, legal right to own and have extra-marital relationship with slave girls etc. What should be the limit of a caliphs power ? What checks and balances should be present ? Should there be a parliament ? What should be the rights of citizens, minorities given that the country has ratified international conventions with United Nations etc.

Which Fiqh should be used to develop the law ? Should the applicable laws for Hazara (Agha khani majority) and Gilgit (Shia majority) be similar to laws in Peshawar (Deobandi & Wahabi majority area) ?? Do you think it is unfair that mandatory islamiat taught in primary and secondary schools is biased against minority sects ? Should Islamiat schooling be mandatory ?

I don't think that Pakistan given the multicultural and multi ethnic population can afford such an adventurous experiment. A liberal democracy would actually in essence give the right of belief and worship to an individual. Of course an individual can always vote based on his religious preferences, but it would be difficult to forcefully impose things on people who hold digressive opinions. We need to develop a sense of tolerance and respect for individuality and differing opinions ?

At this point one may find the following argument tempting, that a democratic opinion in a particular area might be incongruous with islamic legal law ? The most simple and agreeable way to tackle this is that a religio/political party that supports an "islamic law" should try to educate and persuade the people to their point of view rather than brandishing sticks and swords.
Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:39 am View user's profile Send private message
google*
Pak Newbie


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 1
Location: lahore

Reply with quote
I think islamic system has all solutions of our all problems. Its all rules are good for our suciety. Which problems we have faced today these all are because we have left our region's rulles, we are very far away from our respected region islam.
Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:57 am View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
faiz1983
Pak Newbie


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 9

@ Google Reply with quote
You think "Islamic system" whatever that is, has appropriate laws for this country.. So do you support the Islamic system proposed by
the Taliban and the Lal Masjid junta ??

When the Taliban were ruling Afghanistan with their self-proclaimed "Islamic system" and shariah laws, it would be anyone's guess how many
Pakistanis would have been willing to "move" to that "Islamic state". [b]I think we should have started a new thread, Taliban controlled "Islamic State"
or parliamentary democracy in Pakistan ?
[/b]
Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:35 pm View user's profile Send private message
zain-ul-ahsan
Full PK Member
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Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 142
Location: London

Reply with quote
No doubt ' Islamic System' because Islam is not only a religion it is also a ' Life Encylopedia' it teaches us how to live our life as an individual and also as a nation too and as long we follow those instructions i think no country would have any problems.
Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:41 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
zain-ul-ahsan
Full PK Member
Full PK Member


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 142
Location: London

Re: @ Google Reply with quote
faiz1983 wrote:
You think "Islamic system" whatever that is, has appropriate laws for this country.. So do you support the Islamic system proposed by
the Taliban and the Lal Masjid junta ??

When the Taliban were ruling Afghanistan with their self-proclaimed "Islamic system" and shariah laws, it would be anyone's guess how many
Pakistanis would have been willing to "move" to that "Islamic state". I think we should have started a new thread, Taliban controlled "Islamic State"
or parliamentary democracy in Pakistan ?



Well what made u think that Islam is only what Taliban interpret; Islam is such a beautiful religion that no one can even imagine Islam is a very peaceful religion.

So rather than only believing on taliban's or any other extremist you should research yourself and then you will find out the truth about Islam and don't just go to illiterate Mullahs they themselves don't know the real Islam so I think you should research urself.

.
Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:48 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
faiz1983
Pak Newbie


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 9

@Zain Ul Ahsan Reply with quote
I never said that Islam is what Taliban has interpreted and neither do the litany of "islamic scholars" that proliferate this country have the
right to ownership to Islam.... MY First post was exactly on the point, What is the Islamic System ?? What will be the structure of the state ?
Should their be a parliament ? How will a caliph be elected ? Can a Caliph be a Shia, Sunni or from any other sect ? How and to whom would he be
accountable.. Finally, what should be the economic structure of the state ? Should govt nationalize businesses and only extract Zakat ? How will Pakistan
manage it relations and treaties with international organizations like UN etc

Is Taliban's islamic law incorrect ? .....

1) Restriction on music
2) Censorship and destruction of cinema/film etc
3) Forceful covering of women and restricting their movement. etc
4) Branding of Shias as heretics and state sponsored massacre.

It might surprise you but before 2000 a large number of "famous ulemas" would brand themselves as Taliban apologists and support their laws as purely islamic.

if you think there are "perfectly peaceful implementations of islamic political system, please do at least put an outline.. Also, you seem to be obsessed with peace peace peace... as if discontent, conflict and war is alien to a such a political system. To remind you that a major political conflict over succession and oath to caliphate at the time of 4th Caliph led to two extremely disastrous civil wars (Jamal and Siffin); whereas Siffin is considered to have the highest casualties at that time... ( Please I don't give me a lecture on that this was a large "conspiracy" and none of the muslim companions has anything to do with it)

Don't tell me tales if sufism and spiritual nirvana, peace,peace etc .... talk about institutions, political accountability, judicial system etc
Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:34 pm View user's profile Send private message
ahmersharif
Junior PK Member
Junior PK Member


Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 94

Reply with quote
Jitna Pakistan Bigar chuka hai uss ke liye Definetly Islamic Law like Saudi Arab must hai .
Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:43 pm View user's profile Send private message
faiz1983
Pak Newbie


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 9

@Ahmer sharif Reply with quote
Yeah ryte...now we should relegate our self to a fascist monarchy like Saudia Arabia. Already, the house of Saud and their wahabi extremism has done enough harm..
Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:13 pm View user's profile Send private message
ahmersharif
Junior PK Member
Junior PK Member


Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 94

Re: @Ahmer sharif Reply with quote
faiz1983 wrote:
Yeah ryte...now we should relegate our self to a fascist monarchy like Saudia Arabia. Already, the house of Saud and their wahabi extremism has done enough harm..


Me sirf Islamic Sharia Law civil Society ki baat kar raha hun ta ke humari Society se Crime khatam ho or AMAN ayai . Me Hukoomat Ke liye Political System ki baat nahin kar raha. Of course Saudi Hukoomat me Fascist Monarchy hai lekin humare yahan bhi Fasicst Anarchy hai .

I m talking about Sociel Justice System under Islamic Law agar kissi ko Saudia Arab ke Sharia Law pe aitraz hai to theek hai under Islamic Sharia koi bhi Justice System le ke aaain . Please kuch le ke aaain .

Humari Society me Justice , equal Rights , Peace hona chahiye . Ye humari kum se kum zarooriat me se eik hai........
Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:18 pm View user's profile Send private message
an_honest
Full PK Member
Full PK Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 163
Location: lahore

...... Reply with quote
Assalam o alikum
i will vote for islamic system because it is the one having all the solutions of our problems

wssalam o alikum
Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:31 pm View user's profile Send private message
frabbani3
Junior PK Member
Junior PK Member


Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 83

Re Ahmer Sharif Reply with quote
"Me sirf Islamic Sharia Law civil Society ki baat kar raha hun ta ke humari Society se Crime khatam ho or AMAN ayai . Me Hukoomat Ke liye Political System ki baat nahin kar raha. Of course Saudi Hukoomat me Fascist Monarchy hai lekin humare yahan bhi Fasicst Anarchy hai ."


.... Can you describe me this utopian "Islamic Sharia Law Civil Society"... what does this phrase mean ? and anyways, crime can be curtailed by proper enforcement of existing i.e british laws. Countries with lowest crime rates, including Scandinavia has very standard penal code. !! Aman.. has nothing to do wit having "islamic laws".... even Pakistan's celebrated Hudood ordnance (the darling of the mullah brigade) has not been able to curtail (or even penalize) rape cases properly. I guess you used "anarchy" as a general word rather than a political system.

This excessive religious indoctrination and propaganda should stop before any form of law and order is restored to this poor country. This is why I voted for
democracy since it is self-adjusting in the long run, rather than a completely amorphous form of system.
Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:48 am View user's profile Send private message
ahmersharif
Junior PK Member
Junior PK Member


Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 94

Reply with quote
GreatIndian7 wrote:
ahmersharif wrote:
Jitna Pakistan Bigar chuka hai uss ke liye Definetly Islamic Law like Saudi Arab must hai .


One honest Pakistani who acknowledges ki Pakistan Bigad chuka hai.




lekin Pakistan abhi bhi India se Hazaaar darjay Behtar hai .......
Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:07 pm View user's profile Send private message
ahmersharif
Junior PK Member
Junior PK Member


Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 94

Re: Re Ahmer Sharif Reply with quote
frabbani3 wrote:
"Me sirf Islamic Sharia Law civil Society ki baat kar raha hun ta ke humari Society se Crime khatam ho or AMAN ayai . Me Hukoomat Ke liye Political System ki baat nahin kar raha. Of course Saudi Hukoomat me Fascist Monarchy hai lekin humare yahan bhi Fasicst Anarchy hai ."


.... Can you describe me this utopian "Islamic Sharia Law Civil Society"... what does this phrase mean ? and anyways, crime can be curtailed by proper enforcement of existing i.e british laws. Countries with lowest crime rates, including Scandinavia has very standard penal code. !! Aman.. has nothing to do wit having "islamic laws".... even Pakistan's celebrated Hudood ordnance (the darling of the mullah brigade) has not been able to curtail (or even penalize) rape cases properly. I guess you used "anarchy" as a general word rather than a political system.

This excessive religious indoctrination and propaganda should stop before any form of law and order is restored to this poor country. This is why I voted for
democracy since it is self-adjusting in the long run, rather than a completely amorphous form of system.



Poll result hi tumharay sawaal ka jawab hai
Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:19 pm View user's profile Send private message
The Brain 13
Junior PK Member
Junior PK Member


Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 52
Location: earth

Reply with quote
i think that islamic law with democracy will make a good nation
democracy doesnt oppose islam as some secularists & some radicalists say

and taliban's law wasnt an islamic law at all

drug dealers and science enemies cant be considered as islamists


Last edited by The Brain 13 on Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:22 am; edited 1 time in total
Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:19 am View user's profile Send private message
haq_11
Pak Newbie


Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2

Reply with quote
definitely islamic system.
Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:20 am View user's profile Send private message
standup_speakup
Pak Newbie


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 6

Reply with quote
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/taliban-pakistan-justice-women-flogging


Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:55 pm View user's profile Send private message
The Brain 13
Junior PK Member
Junior PK Member


Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 52
Location: earth

Reply with quote
p_gal wrote:
Democracy and Secularism is almost the same thing.

democracy and secularism arent the same thing
for example china is a very secular state and itsn't democratic at all
Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:04 am View user's profile Send private message
paksubha_456
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Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 266
Location: Karachi, Pakistan

Reply with quote
I would prefer democracy and secularism. I dont trust our so-called Mullahs. They are unable to unite on little things let alone the govenance of a country. Do we even have a worthy enough khalifah? We all know the answer...
Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:23 am View user's profile Send private message
TigerBadshah
Pak Newbie


Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 46
Location: Islamabad

Reply with quote
Islamic system for sure
Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:29 pm View user's profile Send private message
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