Forum Pakistan
New User? Register | Search | Memberlist | Log in
Forum Pakistan - Pakistani Forums
Pakistani forum to discuss Pakistani Media, Siasat, Politics Talk Shows, Khaber Akhbar, Khel, Cricket, Film, Dramas, Songs, Videos, Shairy, Shayari, Pyar Mohabbat ki Kahani, Tourism, Hotels, Fashion, Property, Naukary Gupshup and more.
Watch TV OnlineLive RadioListen QuranAkhbarFree SMS PakistanResults OnlineUrdu EditorLollywoodLive Cricket Score
Government DepartmentsKSE Live RatesUseful LinksJobsOnline GamesCheck EmailPromote us
GEO News LiveGEO NewsDawn News Live TVExpress News

Atal Behari Vajpayee: The Lord of Hindu Extremist !!!!!!!!!!

 
Reply to topic    Forum Pakistan - Pakistani Forums Home » World News and Events
Atal Behari Vajpayee: The Lord of Hindu Extremist !!!!!!!!!!
Author Message
@nline
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1833

Atal Behari Vajpayee: The Lord of Hindu Extremist !!!!!!!!!!
Khawaja Mohammad Bashir Butt

We are generally gullible and are easily taken in by glib words or meek postures.

We divide the Hindutva leadership into the categories of soft and hard, hawks and doves or extremists and moderates.

It is an ingrained strategy and the nature of the Hindutva leadership that while dealing with their adversaries, some of them outwardly pose as moderates and the other as diehard extremists, but in reality, they are chips off the same block.

Both are the parts of the same body and structure serving a common purpose and goal.

Some people in Pakistan consider Vajpayee as a moderate and soft leader and not an extremist and fundamentalist Hindu leader.

Here is reality and the truth from the horse’s mouth as shown by the following extracts from Mr Vajpayee’s own article entitled “The Sang is my soul”, published in the weekly New Delhi (The official organ of RSS and BJP) dated May 7, 1995.

“I came in contact with the RSS in 1939 through Arya Kumar Sabha, a youth branch of Arya Samaj in Gwalior.

I started going to the Shakha regularly.

I liked the games played in the Shakha as well as the weekly Buddhiks (intellectual discourses).

A Pracharak Shri Narayanroa Tarte had come from Nagpur to start the Shakha.

What I am today is the making of Shri Tarte.

(Note: The RSS runs schools and training camps that openly promote religious intolerance and discrimination on the basis of caste.

At present, there are more than 300,000 such camps in India known as Shakhas, which are recruiting young boys and men.

They give them extensive physical and ideological training, creating disciples full of “Hindu fervour” and military-like discipline) “Next to him I was inspired by Deendayal Upadhyaya and Bhauroa Decras.

In 1941 when I was in high school, I did my first year of officer training course of RSS.

In 1942 when I was in the intermediate class I did my second year OTC and I did my third year in 1944 when I was doing my BA.

When I wrote Hindu Jeevan, I was a student of Class X.

Owing to the partition, I could not complete my law.

Then in 1947 we were assertive Hindus.

“I decided to give up my studies to come out as a wholetime worker of RSS.

Till 1947 I did the RSS work at the Shakha level and carried on my studies.

My elder brother was also attached with the RSS.

The RSS does not change only individuals.

It changes also the collective mind.

That is the beauty of the RSS ethos.

Gandhiji had praised the RSS for absence of untouchability in the organisation.

The RSS has a two-fold task before it.

One is to organise the Hindus to build a strong Hindu society.

The other task is to assimilate the non-Hindus like Muslims and Christians in the mainstream.

But the Islamic division of the world into darul harab and darul Islam comes in the way.

Islam has yet to learn the art of existing and flourishing in a country were Muslims are in a minority.

“The Congress has not correctly understood the Muslim problem.

They continue to carry on their policy of appeasement.

But to what effect? The Muslims of this country can be treated in three ways.

One is tiraskar, which means if they will not themselves change, then leave them alone and reject them as our compatriots.

Second is puraskar, which is appeasement, i.e.

bribe them to behave, which is being done by the Congress and others of their like.

The third way is parishkar, meaning to change them by offering them the right samskaras.

Their religion will not be changed.

Mecca can continue to be holy for the Muslims but India should be holier than the holy for them.

If they have to choose between Mecca or Islam and India, they must choose India.

“I wrote Hindu Jeevan when I was studying in the tenth class.

I had then said, ‘Koi batlaye Kabul mein jaker kitni masjidien torin.’ I still stand by my words.

But we did pull down the structure in Ayodhya.

In fact ,it was a reaction to the Muslim vote bank.

There was no puraskar for burai (evil).

We change burai also with parishkar.

Now I think the Hindu society has been regenerated, which was the prime task of the RSS.

Earlier, Hindus used to bend before an invasion, but not now.

If the Hindu society does not expand itself it will face a crisis of survival.

We have to expand ourselves.

We have to take others along with us.

The ample reason for my long association with the RSS is that I like the Sangh.

I like its ideology.

Actually, the Sangh is our family.

We are all one.

In the beginning, we could not spread our work in all sections of society because we did not have enough workers.

As we have more workers now, we are covering allocations of society in all fields of life.”

The Sangh is my Soul

(by Shri Atal Behari Vajpayee)

What I am today is the making of Shri Tarte. Next to him I was inspired by Deendayal Upadhyaya and Bhaurao Deoras. Gwalior was then not within the field of Bhauraoji. But once he had come to Gwalior with Shri Balasaheb Apte who was the then Bauddhik Pramukh... My father was not attached to the RSS, but my elder brother was... But the Islamic division of the world into 'Darul Harab' and 'Darul Islam' comes in the way. Islam has yet to learn the art of existing and flourishing in a country where Muslims are in a minority. They cannot convert the whole of India to Islam. After all, they have to live here. So they have to recognise this fact. And today it has become a matter of grave concern and deep thinking in the Muslim countries. Because Quran offers no guidance in this regard. It only talks of killing kafirs or converting them to Islam. But they cannot do it always and everywhere. How can they do it where they are in a minority? If they try to do it, a major clash will take place and only the members of the minority will be killed. But Muslims themselves have to change this state of affairs. We cannot change it for them... Congress has not correctly understood the Muslim problem. They continue to carry on their policy of appeasement. But to what effect? The Muslims of this country can be treated in three ways.... One is 'tiraskar' which means if they will not themselves change leave them alone, reject them as out compatriots. Second is 'puruskar' which is appeasement, i.e., bribe them to behave, which is being done by the Congress and others of their ilk. The third way is 'parishkar' meaning to change them, that is, restore them to the mainstream by providing them samskaras. ... We want to change them by offering them the right samskaras. Their religion will not be changed. They can follow their own religion. Mecca can continue to be holy for the Muslims but India should be holier than the holy for them. You can go to a mosque and offer namaz, you can keep the roza. We have no problem. But if you have to choose between Mecca or Islam and India you must choose India. All the muslims should have this feeling: we will live and die only for this country.

I wrote "Hindu Tan-man Hindu Jeevan" when I was studying in the tenth class. I had then said, "koi batlaye Kabul mein jaakar kitni masjiden todin." I still stand by my words. But we (Hindus) did pull down the structure in Ayodhya. In fact it was a reaction to the Muslim vote-bank. We wanted to solve this problem through negotiation and legislation. But there was no puraskar for burai (evil act). We change burai also with parishkar. Now I think, the Hindu society has been regenerated which was the prime task of the RSS. Earlier Hindus used to bend before an invasion but not now. This change in Hindu society is worthy of welcome. So much change must have come with the new-found ... The simple reason for my long association with the RSS is that I like the Sangh. I like its ideology, and above all I like the RSS attitude towards people, towards one another which is found only in the RSS ... When I was ill during the Emergency, my family members did not turn up to see me. They were afraid of being arrested for any such action. Only the RSS workers helped me.

"The Sangh is my Soul"

(by Shri Atal Behari Vajpayee)

{Quote}

I came in contact with the RSS in 1939 through Arya Kumar Sabha, a youth branch of Arya Samaj, in Gwalior-then a princely state which was not part of any province. I came from a strong 'sanatani' family. But I used to be at the weekly 'satsang' of Arya Kumar Sabha. Once Shri Bhoodev Shastri who was a senior worker of Arya kumar Sabha, and a great thinker and an expert organiser, asked us: "What do you do in the evenings?" "Nothing", we said, because the Arya Kumar Sabha used to meet in the morning on every Sunday. Then he recommended us to go to the shakha. Thus I started going to the Shakha in Gwalior. It was my first association with the RSS. At that time the shakha in Gwalior had just begun. It had only Maharashtrian boys, and naturally all the swayamsevaks used to speak only Marathi. I started going to the shakha regularly. I liked the games played in the shakha as well as the weekly 'bauddhiks' (intellectual discourses).

A pracharak, Shri Narayanrao Tarte had come from Nagpur to start the shakha. He was indeed a superb human being; a very simple man, a thinker and an expert organiser. What I am today is the making of Shri Tarte. Next to him I was inspired by Deendayal Upadhyaya and Bhaurao Deoras. Gwalior was then not within the field of Bhauraoji. But once he had come to Gwalior with Shri Balasaheb Apte who was the then Bauddhik Pramukh. Apteji was very soft-spoken. We were soon drawn towards him. I had talked with him for only a few minutes. But the same year (1940) when I went to see the first year Officers' Training Camp (OTC), I came in close contact with him. I went there just to attend the valedictory function of the camp, not for training. Dr. Hedgewar had also come there for the some time. I first saw him there. When Doctorji was ill I went to see him. In 1941 when I was in High School I did my first year OTC. In 1942 when I was in Intermediate class I did my second year OTC, and I did my third year in 1944 when I was doing my B.A.

When I wrote 'Hindu Tan-man Hindu Jeevan' I was a student of class X. After completing my graduation from Gwalior I did my M.A. from the DAV College in Kanpur, because there was no post-graduate college in Gwalior. I then got State Government's scholarship also. Owing to Partition, I could not complete my Law. And then in 1947, I decided to give up my studies to come out as a whole-time worker of the RSS. Till 1947 I did the RSS work at the shakha level and carried on my studies. I also participated in the Quit India Movement in 1942 and was jailed. I was then studying for my Intermediate examination. I was arrested from my native village Bhateshwar in Agra district. I was then 16.

My father was not attached to the RSS, but my elder brother was. He would go to the shakha. Once he went to the winter camp where he created a problem. He said: "I cannot take my food with the other swayamsevaks. I shall prepare my food myself." And see how deftly the RSS handled the situation. The 'sarvadhikari' (superintendent) of the camp complied with his request and provided him all the necessary thing for preparing his food. After taking his bath and properly adjusting his sacred thread, etc., he started cooking his food. On the first day he prepared the food for himself. The next day, however, he could not prepare it and joined the queue of all swayamsevaks for partaking of the food. Within 44 hours he was changed.

The RSS does not change only individuals. It changes also the collective mind. This is the beauty of the RSS ethos. In our spiritual tradition an individual can attain a great height. Even self-realisation is possible if one undertakes the right 'sadhana' and also attain 'nirvana.' But what about the society? Nobody thinks about his obligation to the society in general. Now for the first time the RSS thought about it and concluded that by changing individuals we shall change the society. Had the sarvadhikari at the camp scolded him and not allowed him to prepare his food himself his spiritual development would have been thwarted, whereas in the RSS within 44 hours he was a changed boy. This is the "secret method" of the RSS. That is how society is changed. It is true that it is a long process but then there are no short-cuts, no instant recipes.

Gandhiji had praised the RSS for the absence of untouchability in the organisation. Only the RSS organises the society. Other movements only divide the society by emphasising distinct 'identity', different 'interests', special 'status', etc. They only encourage untouchability by constantly reminding the so-called untouchables of their "separateness." "You are being insulted. You have no place in society."

The RSS has a two-fold task before it. One is to organise the Hindus. To build a strong Hindu society, well-knit and rising above caste and other artificial differences. Some differences will persist but then variety is the spice of life. Like, we have the differences of the language. We don't want to destroy this diversity. The other task is to assimilate the non-Hindus, like Muslims and Christians in the mainstream. They can follow the faith of their own conviction. No one can object to it. We worship trees, animals, stones, and what not. We have hundreds of ways of worshipping God. They can go where they want. But this country must be looked upon as the Motherland for them. They must have a feeling of patriotism for this country. But the Islamic division of the world into 'Darul Harab' and 'Darul Islam' comes in the way. Islam has yet to learn the art of existing and flourishing in a country where Muslims are in a minority. They cannot convert the whole of India to Islam. After all, they have to live here. So they have to recognise this fact. And today it has become a matter of grave concern and deep thinking in the Muslim countries. Because Quran offers no guidance in this regard. It only talks of killing kafirs or converting them to Islam. But they cannot do it always and everywhere. How can they do it where they are in a minority? If they try to do it, a major clash will take place and only the members of the minority will be killed. But Muslims themselves have to change this state of affairs. We cannot change it for them.

Congress has not correctly understood the Muslim problem. They continue to carry on their policy of appeasement. But to what effect? The Muslims of this country can be treated in three ways. One is 'tiraskar' which means if they will not themselves change leave them alone, reject them as out compatriots. Second is 'puruskar' which is appeasement, i.e., bribe them to behave, which is being done by the Congress and others of their ilk. The third way is 'parishkar' meaning to change them, that is, restore them to the mainstream by providing them samskaras. We want to change them by offering them the right samskaras. Their religion will not be changed. They can follow their own religion. Mecca can continue to be holy for the Muslims but India should be holier than the holy for them. You can go to a mosque and offer namaz, you can keep the roza. We have no problem. But if you have to choose between Mecca or Islam and India you must choose India. All the muslims should have this feeling: we will live and die only for this country.

I wrote "Hindu Tan-man Hindu Jeevan" when I was studying in the tenth class. I had then said, "koi batlaye Kabul mein jaakar kitni masjiden todin." I still stand by my words. But we (Hindus) did pull down the structure in Ayodhya. In fact it was a reaction to the Muslim vote-bank. We wanted to solve this problem through negotiation and legislation. But there was no puraskar for burai (evil act). We change burai also with parishkar. Now I think, the Hindu society has been regenerated which was the prime task of the RSS. Earlier Hindus used to bend before an invasion but not now. This change in Hindu society is worthy of welcome. So much change must have come with the new-found self-assertion. This is a question of self-preservation. If the Hindu society does not expand itself it will face the crisis of survival. We have to expand ourselves. We have to take others along with. Now the Yadavs and the so-called Harijans are going with us. After all we have to live as Hindus. Once a Yadav leader came to me and said: "Don't condemn all Yadavs. All Yadavs are not with Mulayam Singh and Laloo Prasad. A 'samskrit' (cultured) Yadav does not like them. There can be sections of Rajput, Kurmi and Gujjar Muslims but you cannot find any Yadav Muslim anywhere. The Yadavs never accepted Islam. This talk of "Yadav-Muslim" Unity - MY card - is nothing more than an empty slogan for votes."

The simple reason for my long association with the RSS is that I like the Sangh. I like its ideology, and above all I like the RSS attitude towards people, towards one another which is found only in the RSS. I remember an incident, when I was in Lucknow. The Socialist movement was its peak. Suddenly a senior socialist activist fell ill. He was lying alone in his house, and nobody went to enquire after his well-being. Then Acharya Narendra Deo came to know and he went to his house to see him. The Acharya then said, "What fraternity is this in the Socialist Party? Nobody has come to see you. It can never happen in the RSS. If a swayamsevak does not go to the shakha only for one day the same day friends will promptly reach his house to enquire about his well-being."

When I was ill during the Emergency, my family members did not turn up to see me. They were afraid of being arrested for any such action. Only the RSS workers helped me. See, how much living contact and fraternal feeling is in the RSS. Actually the Sangh is our family. We are all one.

In the beginning we could not spread our work in all sections of the society because we did not have enough workers. "Man-making" is the prime job of the RSS. As we now have more workers, we are covering all sections of the society in all fields of life. Changes are taking place in all spheres. But the work of man-making will not be discontinued, it will go on. It must go on. That is what the RSS movement is.

{Unquote}



In `RSS - The "Sangh": What is it, and what is it not?" Partha Banerjee notes that:

"Atal Bihari Vajpayee, the parliamentary leader of BJP, is a lifelong member of RSS, more commonly known as the "Sangh". Most leaders and active members of BJP are products of the Sangh and steeped in its Hindu supremacist doctrine. Vajpayee was a full-time RSS worker before he was "released" for BJP (formerly Jana Sangh) activities. In one of his Hindi poems, Vajpayee proclaims: "Hindu Hindu mera parichay"-my only identity is Hindu. This may remind us of his campaign speeches during the recent Indian elections, "Is it a crime to be a Hindu in this country?" ...

"Israel now has become a hot favorite of the Sangh Parivar-Vajpayee, Advani, and other BJP leaders have frequented the country to show their support for the ferociously anti-Arab nation. Attempts have often been made, allegedly, to iron out the Sangh's previously bitter relationships with USA via the mediation of Israel. Note the irony here-a Hitler-admiring organization is having a mutual love-fest with the one nation that has the most reason on earth to despise anything that even remotely seeks of Hitler and the Nazi party. "

Pandit Vajpayee's belief Akhand Bharat
Pandrah august ka din kahta,
azadi abhi adhuri hai sapne sach hone banki hain,
ravi ki shapath na poori hai.
din door nahin khandit bharat ko,
punah akhand banayenge,
gilgit se garo parwat tak azadi parva manayenge. us swarn divas ke liye aaj se kamar kasen
balidan karen jo paya usme kho na jayen
jo khoya uska dhyan karen.

(The day of August 15 says-Freedom is still incomplete.
There are still dreams waiting to be realised.
River Ravi`s pledge is still unfulfilled.
The day is not far when we shall reunite the divided India.
From Gilgit to Garo Mountain, we shall celebrate the freedom festival.
Come, get ready to strive, and sacrifice for the golden day, so that we protect what we have got and aim to get what we have lost.)


Criticism over Gujarat riots irks Vajpayee

NEW DELHI: Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee lashed out on Thursday at swelling international criticism of the Hindu-Muslim riots in Gujarat state as the violence claimed another life.

Vajpayee, angered over comments by Western diplomats in local papers, told a religious gathering in New Delhi that India would not accept sermons from other countries about its handling of the bloodbath. "India is being advised on pluralism and secularism. We need not learn about secularism from anybody," Vajpayee said. He also maintained that his government would be able to end the violence. "Our foundation is strong. There is no reason why people, who in the present circumstances have deviated, should not come back on the right path," Vajpayee added.

Thirty-one people have been killed in Gujarat since Sunday, when fresh unrest broke out in the deadliest clashes there since the army was deployed to keep order in early March. In the latest incident, police said on Thursday one man was killed and two others injured in overnight riots. They were shot by police who fired several rounds on a mob, who were burning down houses and other properties in the commercial hub of Ahmedabad.

The international criticism caused India's foreign ministry to warn European and other countries on Wednesday not to meddle in the nation's internal affairs. "Some foreign countries and missions in New Delhi are injecting themselves into the highly politically charged internal debate in the country and are creating an impression of playing a partisan role," the ministry said and added.

Mr. Vajpayee, the swayamsevak

By Kuldip Nayar

The outcry by the intelligentsia is not because the Prime Minister, Atal Behari Vajpayee's mask has come off but because his liberalism has turned out to be phoney. Many feel cheated when they find him as much a torchbearer of Hindutva as anyone else in the Sangh Parivar. An RSS ideologue had repeatedly said that Mr. Vajpayee was only a `mukut' (mask). Still very few believed him because Mr. Vajpayee spoke and even sometimes acted differently from the saffron leaders. In fact, one sympathised with him, believing that his was a lone voice, lost in the cacophony of fundamentalists. It was hoped — a mere wishful thinking — that some day his voice would be loud enough to silence those who were arguing in favour of converting the democratic secular India into a theocratic state.

Doubts about Mr. Vajpayee were always there. But never before was he found out, as happened at the BJP's Goa conclave. His behaviour and contradictory statements after the Gujarat carnage have made people see him in his true colours. The question is not whether the Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendra Modi should be removed or not. The question is whether Mr. Vajpayee should defend him and echo his words. The burning of Ram sevaks at Godhra is unpardonable and the Centre is doing well to find out the killers. They deserve no mercy. But when Mr. Vajpayee says that the happenings in the rest of Gujarat were a consequence of Godhra, he repeats what Mr. Modi said to cover up his mistakes and complicity: ``Action would have reaction.'' Incidents in Ahmedabad and Vadodra were part of a well-planned and well-executed scheme of exterminating a particular community. This scheme had been prepared long before Godhra and it would have been carried out, even without the gruesome Godhra incident. Taking Mr. Vajpayee's explanation to its logical end will mean that if some Muslim fundamentalists were to kill some Hindus at a certain place, it would be natural for Hindus to kill innocent Muslims elsewhere. What norms the Prime Minister is trying to lay down?

And what an irresponsible statement he has made at the BJP's meeting at Goa: ``We allow them (Muslims and Christians) to offer prayers and follow their religion''. This is an excerpt which a Delhi paper published on the front page in its Sunday edition. Who are `we'? Is he justified to say so? Just because he is the Prime Minister with the help of some self-serving members of the National Democratic Alliance (NDA), or just because he belongs to the majority community, can he arrogate to himself the power which no one has got, since power belongs to the people living in the country?

And even if the country comes to be ruled by Mr. Vajpayee's party, it does not mean that he has the authority to dictate to the minorities. They draw their right from the Constitution as Mr. Vajpayee does. India is as much their country as his. The Constitution used the word, ``We, the People of India''.

No individual, government or party is above the people. Both the majority and the minority constitute the people.

Mr. Vajpayee has done a service by owning Hindutva openly. At least those who have had illusions about him know who he is. He is only a swayamsewak who stands to attention at RSS parades to prove that he is as obedient as any other in the Parivar and all of them believe that religion and the state are synonymous. What a fall!

I won't be surprised if Mr. Vajpayee does not get even a footnote in history.

Vajpayee strongly defends the RSS

In what is sure to kick up a political storm, Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee has come out strongly in defense of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and called it a “cultural and social organization.”

Vajpayee on February 5 defended the Gujarat Government's decision to lift the ban on the State government employees joining the RSS in the face of opposition criticism.

"Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh is not a political outfit. It is a cultural and social organization and I don't think objections should be raised on anybody joining it," Vajpayee told journalists after inaugurating the World Book Fair in New Delhi.

Asked to comment on reports that President K R Narayanan had sought clarification from the Center on the Gujarat Government's decision, the Vajpayee said "The Government's stand will be made known to the President. I am confident this will satisfy him."

Central Civil Service (conduct) rules 1964 prohibit Government servants from joining any political party or organization which takes part in politics, subscribes in aid of or assists in any other manner, any political movement or activity.

Vajpayee reveals his true colors

By Mark Tully

(CNN) -- The communal violence in the western Indian state of Gujarat -- which is still continuing sporadically nearly eight weeks after it first broke out -- has cast doubts on the future of secularism in India.

Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, known to believe in moderation in politics, has now come out openly in support of the Hindu hardliners in his Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).

These hardliners now seem determined to revive the campaign for a Hindu India.

Vajpayee has often been described as the mask, hiding the true nature of his Bharatiya Janata Party with its ambition to establish a Hindu India.

For four years as leader, he has held that mask firmly in place but last weekend the mask slipped, or more accurately, he threw it away.

There was nothing accidental about the hard-hitting speech he made at a rally during the party's National Executive meeting in Goa.

Vajpayee maintained that wherever there were Muslims in the world there was strife and suggested that Hindus had the right to decide the freedom to be allowed to other religions.

"We have allowed Hindus and Muslims to say their prayers," the Indian leader said.

Support for Modi

He backed his party's support for Narendra Modi, the Chief Minister of Gujarat, who has been widely criticized for failing to control the recent outbreak of Hindu-Muslim violence and to provide adequate relief for the displaced.

Gangs of Hindu rioters went on the rampage in Gujaray, killing hundreds of Muslims and razing buildings and homes in revenge attacks fuelled by the firebombing of a train carrying Hindu activists.

The activists were returning from a controversial site sacred to both Hindus and Muslims in the northern Indian town of Ayodhya.

They had been campaigning for the rebuilding of a Hindu temple on the site of a mosque torn down in 1992.

At least 59 Hindus were killed when several carriages of the train were torched on February 27.

That attack sparked the worst sectarian violence in India for more than a decade, leaving around 800 people dead and thousands homeless.

Vajpayee also backed the suggestion that Modi should dissolve the Gujarat State Assembly and go for an election.

The BJP clearly believes that the attacks on Muslims, the killings, the rape, the burning and the looting will be popular with the Hindu electorate in Gujarat, and wants to hold an election before the anti-Muslim sentiment subsides.

No option

In taking this stand, Vajpayee knew he was threatening the survival of his government, so why did he throw away his mask?

He had no option. Under his leadership the BJP has recently suffered a series of electoral disasters.

Just before Goa, it was humiliated in local body elections in Delhi, once its stronghold.

These defeats have revived the long-running dispute within the party.

On the one side, there have been those like Vajpayee who believe that an uncompromising Hindu agenda will never attract more than minority support.

On the other side, the ideologues maintain that the only purpose of the party is to promote what they call Hindutva, arguing that the party always becomes weaker when it abandons or waters down its Hindu agenda.

The evidence of recent elections left Vajpayee defenseless against the hardliners, so he had to back them when he faced his party in Goa.

Turning point?

After Goa, Indians were asking whether this was a turning point in their history.

Has the country got its first Prime Minister who is prepared to be blatantly pro-Hindu? Is there going to be an election in Gujarat openly fought on communal lines?

If so and the BJP wins, will it decide to go it alone in other parts of the country fighting elections with campaigns which provoke hatred of Muslims?.

Ten years ago Indians were also asking whether the secularism which had been the guiding principle of the constitution since independence had gone for good.

The question was provoked by the destruction of the mosque in Ayodhya and the communal violence that erupted in its wake.

But secularism was restored and the Vajpayee line prevailed in the BJP.

Temporary phenomenon

So it's tempting to forecast that Gujarat and its aftermath will also prove to be a temporary phenomenon.

Already Vajpayee is claiming to have been misunderstood, and if he is to hold his coalition together he can not allow the temperature to remain at fever level.

The BJP seems to be having second thoughts about holding an immediate election in Gujarat.

But even if the Cassandras are proved wrong that does not mean the wounds of Gujarat will heal.

Muslims' confidence in Indian secularism has been shaken again.

Until the majority of Hindus make it absolutely clear that they are determined to live up to the Indian tradition of equal respect for all religions, there will be no antidote to the communal poison being spread by some leaders of both communities.

Muslims don't want to live in harmony, says Vajpayee

Sheela Bhatt in Panaji

Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee had an unpleasant surprise for Muslims on Friday: he came down on the community like a ton of bricks.

Addressing a public rally in the Goan capital, Vajpayee said Islam has two faces: one that teaches tolerance and respects human sentiments; another that fans militancy where there is no place for tolerance.

Completely changing his tone from the anguished one he had adopted in Gujarat last fortnight, Vajpayee, in the presence of members of the Bharatiya Janata Party's national executive, lashed out at Muslims. "In Indonesia, Malaysia, wherever Muslims are living they don't want to live in harmony," he claimed. "They don't mix with the society [ghul milkar nahin rehte]. They are not interested in living in peace."

He said that along with Islam madrassas (Islamic religious schools) should teach science subjects. They should also teach children to live in harmony. "Talwar ke bal par mat ka prachar nahin karna chahiye (Islamists should not preach their opinions by force)," he said.

On the Gujarat riots, he took the same line as the hardliners within the Sangh Parivar, blaming it all on the massacre at Godhra. "Aag lagayi kisne?" he thundered. "Aag faily kaise? (Who lit the fire? How did it spread?)"

But he conceded that what had happened after Godhra was also condemnable. "If you go deeper into the Gujarat tragedy," he said, "you will find that the people of India believe in a multi-religious culture and want to live in harmony. No one should challenge our beliefs in secularism."

He said he was surprised to know during his visit to Singapore about the arrests of some 15 Al Qaeda members. He said India was suffering at the hand of these terrorists.

Union Home Minister Lal Kishenchand Advani, though present at the public meeting, did not speak. BJP president K Jana Krishnamurthi stoutly defended the Narendra Modi government in Gujarat and warned the Congress that it should respect "democratic norms". Slamming the Congress campaign for Modi's ouster, he warned, "We too are capable of playing this sport."

Media exaggerating riots situation in Gujarat: PM

NEW DELHI: A day after his televised address to the nation regretting the "disgraceful" violence in Gujarat, Prime Minister Vajpayee told a group of concerned citizens that the media was presenting an "exaggerated" account of the situation in the state.

According to members of the citizens' delegation - which included noted Gandhian Nirmala Deshpande - Vajpayee told them on Sunday that it was incorrect to suggest that the whole of Gujarat was burning, when the violence was limited to a few places.

According to writer and activist Sonia Jabbar, who was part of the delegation, Vajpayee said the media has not played a constructive role by showing scenes of carnage; and that instead of complaining to the government, the delegation should ask the media to play a better role. She said that Vajpayee added that if he were to say the same thing to the media directly, he would be accused of censorship.

The Prime Minister's Office has not released an account of the meeting. Attempts to contact the PMO spokesman proved unsuccessful.

The citizens' delegation asked Vajpayee about the possibility of banning groups like the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and the Bajrang Dal, which were fomenting tension.




Prime Minister Vajpayee: the mirror with two faces

Although Vajpayee may calculatedly project a soft and moderate exterior, he is an RSS man to the boot, says Zafar Agha

New Delhi, April 6

It was a theatrics par excellence. Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajapayee was at his oratorical best wooing the Muslims who had lost faith in every thing. After all, his trip to Ahmedabad had come up in an extremely demanding situation in a city haunted by state-sponsored genocide.

Ironically, the man largely responsible for this state-sponsored terrorism, Gujarat Chief Minister Modi, was seen accompanying the Prime Minister all along during the latter's visit to Ahmedabad. He was with Vajpayee at the Shah Alam camp, where thousands of Ahmedabad riot victims have taken refuge. Modi, in fact, never cared to visit these camps till Vajpayee reached the city on Thursday.

But Vajpayee had a brief to carry out. His job was to woo Muslims but at the same time not to upset Modi - a demanding job indeed! So the Prime Minister had to do his best. And, his performance in Gujarat was, indeed, one of the best in his long political career in which he has mastered the skill of oratory.

Vajpayee's expressions betrayed right emotions in the right situations. Flushed with disappointment and dismayed with the gravity of violence, Vajpayee delivered all the right lines: "Yeh kia pagalpan hia… Bhalla kaun inssan, inssan ko zinda jala sakta hai… Main kia moohn ley kar bahar jaoon gaa" (This is sheer madness… How can one human being burn another? What face will I carry outside India). It was theatrics at its best.

But Vajpayee betrayed his real self at the end of his journey. He did a volte face when a reporter asked whether Modi would be replaced. Vajpayee, with the right pause at the right time, said, "I don't see that possibility." And, to keep up his façade he chided Modi to do his rajdharma, to which Modi retorted that he was doing his rajdharma all right. After all, both Vajpayee and Modi have learnt the same rajdharma in RSS shakhas that teach their members to convert Muslims into "second class citizens."

When the moment of reckoning came, Vajpayee stood by the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) line: glib talking to Muslims of Ahmedabad but leaving Modi unharmed. This sums up Vajpayee the politician. His exterior is always soft, humane and at times as gentle as that of a poet. But his politics never deviates from RSS politics. Be it the massacre of Christians in Orissa or the killing and burning of Muslims in Ahmedabad, Vajpayee finally stands by the RSS line.

Vajpayee's performance in Ahmedabad leaves him exposed. It mirrors two faces of Vajpayee's personality. He is soft and moderate in his pronouncements. But he is the hardcore RSS man when it comes to practicing politics.

This is, indeed, a dangerous trait for a politician because he may say something but will do something the opposite. There have often been moments when the country witnessed this dangerous trait of Vajpayee, but rarely was it so fully exposed as in Ahmedabad.


Last edited by @nline on Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:41 am; edited 1 time in total
Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:24 am View user's profile Send private message
@nline
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1833

rohit-Banglore, Reply with quote
Once you said to me that "Wait til BJP comes into power and we kill all terrorisam"
Well, here I have the REAL FACE OF VAJPAYEE & BJP. Cool


Now how many times you will denie to accept the reality of India Question
Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:26 am View user's profile Send private message
007
Junior PK Member
Junior PK Member


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 83

Reply with quote
@nline,
Bro. How you getting such unbelieveable news about India Shocked
Exellent, work bro.
Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:44 pm View user's profile Send private message
php_web
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 1364

Reply with quote
Excellent Work @nline

Not unbelievable but eye (or brain or both Smile ) opening knowledge for fellow Indians.


*
Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:59 pm View user's profile Send private message
unreal
Pak Newbie


Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 13

thanks Reply with quote
interesting news bro
Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:01 pm View user's profile Send private message
Hollow
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 822

Reply with quote
Thanks for writing an excellent and informative article about the Hindu extremest . I am completely agreed with your findings about Vajpayee . He is really a Hindu extremist .
Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:08 pm View user's profile Send private message
rohit_bangalore
Indian Propaganda
Indian Propaganda


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 781

online Reply with quote
Atal bihari bajpayee is the most respected Ex Pm of india only after Nehru and indira gandhi...


and its all fake your ex media fake anti india propaganda...which makes me laugh...



and for ur kind information



BJP is coming in power.....and Adwani is going2 becme PM of india...

and although congress and bjp follow same policy but congress is little soft on terrorism and its ally CPI think that by harping on minority issues and by not allowing development in india,they can keep india behind....

but CPI is also losing in kerela this time and bengal is also bad news for them after nandigram and now bird flu...


Let BJP come in power....then u wll see the aggressive side of india ...india is already ally of israel on all issues except IRAN and we also want peace in palestine ....Now palestine and israel are moving on with talks .let them sort out the issues ...then they will have lot of time in helping india on kashmir and terrorism whch pak has been doing for yrs...
Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:20 pm View user's profile Send private message
@nline
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1833

rohit_bangalore Reply with quote
So you are wating for Israel support to attck on Pakistan when BJP will come in power Laughing
Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:49 pm View user's profile Send private message
ugwaraich
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1731
Location: uk

Re: online Reply with quote
rohit_bangalore wrote:
Atal bihari bajpayee is the most respected Ex Pm of india only after Nehru and indira gandhi...


and its all fake your ex media fake anti india propaganda...which makes me laugh...



and for ur kind information



BJP is coming in power.....and Adwani is going2 becme PM of india...

and although congress and bjp follow same policy but congress is little soft on terrorism and its ally CPI think that by harping on minority issues and by not allowing development in india,they can keep india behind....

but CPI is also losing in kerela this time and bengal is also bad news for them after nandigram and now bird flu...


Let BJP come in power....then u wll see the aggressive side of india ...india is already ally of israel on all issues except IRAN and we also want peace in palestine ....Now palestine and israel are moving on with talks .let them sort out the issues ...then they will have lot of time in helping india on kashmir and terrorism whch pak has been doing for yrs...


do you think a country like Israel which is shattered and intimidated by Iran (who is not yet a nuclear power) could handle Pakistan?, mind you Israel is in Pakistan's missile range, especially if Iran allows us to launch missiles against Israel from Irani soil Smile , it has been written in the fate of Israeli's as it says in Quran that they are cursed by restless life, and thats what history tells us, they are still restless and will remain restless because of their nature.

I feel pity for india now, you poor indian souls why you need Israel's help to sort out terrorism in kashmir? you the army of more than 1.5 million cant you handle the tiny little weak nation Pakistan yourselves? I feel pity for you mate that you are begging Israel for their help?
you indian pandora's where have your strength gone.
Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:04 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
rohit_bangalore
Indian Propaganda
Indian Propaganda


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 781

online Reply with quote
Quote:
So you are wating for Israel support to attck on Pakistan when BJP will come in power Laughing


ya isreal is expert in dealing with terrorism........and india had no option but to be an ally of israel coz OIC didnt give membership to india even we have +16 crore muslim ...


and OIC supported kashmiri terrorism just on 1 basis ,they are all islamic country..


so once full world USA,OIC and all muslim country were against india for sake of it...BUt now they are hitting their own head after facing the reality....

OIC didnt know so much things about terrorism in pakistan...Now they must be feeling bad for they infuriated india by supporting pak on kashmir which was their wrong stance....and they are feeling infuriated now..


but indians are very peaceful people...we dont believe in tit for tat strategy....BUt i heard OIC wants india to become member while they dumped us in 1990s........


i never told indians will fight pakistan or any country.....india wll take help of isreal to sabotage the terrorists in india/kashmir..

and now we have the most advanced satellite ...india still dont need any country to fight pakistan which all of u know in our prev history(1971)////


but we need them to fight our terrorism ...and israel and palestine are getting good now...and india also wants peaceful settlement of palestine.......
Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:08 pm View user's profile Send private message
ugwaraich
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1731
Location: uk

Re: online Reply with quote
rohit_bangalore wrote:
Quote:
So you are wating for Israel support to attck on Pakistan when BJP will come in power Laughing


ya isreal is expert in dealing with terrorism........and india had no option but to be an ally of israel coz OIC didnt give membership to india even we have +16 crore muslim ...


and OIC supported kashmiri terrorism just on 1 basis ,they are all islamic country..


so once full world USA,OIC and all muslim country were against india for sake of it...BUt now they are hitting their own head after facing the reality....

OIC didnt know so much things about terrorism in pakistan...Now they must be feeling bad for they infuriated india by supporting pak on kashmir which was their wrong stance....and they are feeling infuriated now..


but indians are very peaceful people...we dont believe in tit for tat strategy....BUt i heard OIC wants india to become member while they dumped us in 1990s........


i never told indians will fight pakistan or any country.....india wll take help of isreal to sabotage the terrorists in india/kashmir..

and now we have the most advanced satellite ...india still dont need any country to fight pakistan which all of u know in our prev history(1971)////


but we need them to fight our terrorism ...and israel and palestine are getting good now...and india also wants peaceful settlement of palestine.......


dont take your views into some muslim country because we have sensible people who whenever see a mad dog barking without any reason they exterminate it.
fyi Israel and palestine are not getting good how can they get good in such conditions? keep yourself updated with current affairs (the neutral ones)


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7191350.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7198798.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7200037.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7201569.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7201757.stm

you think israel is getting on well with palestine? watch this photo and read the text below it:

http://news.uk.msn.com/photo-gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=4715236&imageindex=2

"WEST BANK - Palestinian Maher Al-Assali is tended to by his brother in their home in Jabalya in Gaza January 21, 2008. Ready to act fast to save his life, Maher Al-Assali's young siblings stand at his bedside, poised to pump air through a hole in the 12-year-old's neck when the ventilator that keeps him alive cuts out. "

The ventilator cuts out because the power was shut down to gaza strip by your friends Israeli's, there are hundreds of such cases. you think you can stop so called "terrorism" by killing the kids and families of so called "terrorists" this way? no, this movement will only grow strong and strong.

you should shuut up now, because you are no more than a dog barking at the wind.
Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:15 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
rohit_bangalore
Indian Propaganda
Indian Propaganda


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 781

ugwarich Reply with quote
did i say israel is good country???but they were the first ones after russia to support india on kashmir issue..

Now world knows about terrorism in kashmir but before world was more pakistan supportive..Ab jab khud ka watt laga tab USA ko 2001 mein yaad aaya ki, terrorism cant have dual definition..Its same for india and usa.....ANd kashmiri terrorists had made things hell in kashmir and we had daily bomb blasts in delhi,mumbai and other cities which is terrorism ...................and now those a** are running for their life....indian army is exterminate them so badly that their generation wont thnk of promotin terror in kashmir and india.....

ISreal is india strategic ally and they are the most advanced nation in defense tech...............and we are obliged to them or helping us solve our crisis....And now kashmir terrorism has almost come to end after musharrf promised to destroy all camps in pakistan and ajad kashmir...


BUt india still dont support on palestine issue..we want them to solve the problem peacefully and stop killing palestians..And i m reading that things have improved...but i dont understand why pakistanis think about palestine??

pehle apna kichar saph kariye ugwarich????then think about others....u have bigger problem than palestine...and ur country should think about diplomacy...religion should be not involved in international issues...


and now full world including USA and even pak labels the kashmiri organizations as terrorists ..




And OIC didnt play fair with india...so they should nt hope india to support them if USA attacks them.


and Iran have always backed india so we treat them as friendly nation despite israel has some problem with iran which is not our matter...............
Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:15 am View user's profile Send private message
ugwaraich
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1731
Location: uk

Re: ugwarich Reply with quote
rohit_bangalore wrote:
did i say israel is good country???but they were the first ones after russia to support india on kashmir issue..

Now world knows about terrorism in kashmir but before world was more pakistan supportive..Ab jab khud ka watt laga tab USA ko 2001 mein yaad aaya ki, terrorism cant have dual definition..Its same for india and usa.....ANd kashmiri terrorists had made things hell in kashmir and we had daily bomb blasts in delhi,mumbai and other cities which is terrorism ...................and now those a** are running for their life....indian army is exterminate them so badly that their generation wont thnk of promotin terror in kashmir and india.....

ISreal is india strategic ally and they are the most advanced nation in defense tech...............and we are obliged to them or helping us solve our crisis....And now kashmir terrorism has almost come to end after musharrf promised to destroy all camps in pakistan and ajad kashmir...


BUt india still dont support on palestine issue..we want them to solve the problem peacefully and stop killing palestians..And i m reading that things have improved...but i dont understand why pakistanis think about palestine??

pehle apna kichar saph kariye ugwarich????then think about others....u have bigger problem than palestine...and ur country should think about diplomacy...religion should be not involved in international issues...


and now full world including USA and even pak labels the kashmiri organizations as terrorists ..




And OIC didnt play fair with india...so they should nt hope india to support them if USA attacks them.


and Iran have always backed india so we treat them as friendly nation despite israel has some problem with iran which is not our matter...............


I dont think you are going to agree with us anyway so no point telling you, your real face. good luck for creating all that mess on this forum and all over the world.
Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:30 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
rohit_bangalore
Indian Propaganda
Indian Propaganda


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 781

ugwarich Reply with quote
but just tell me one thing??


why do those people issue fatwa and all???

many hindu leaders talk anti hindu things to appease muslim...this is a common vote bank strategy by congress,cpi and DMK...


congress is all concerned about muslim ...and CPI :they are messiah of poor,naxalites and they dont want development..they are chinese party worse than congress..at least congress has some development policy and they want to develop india...

in india in 1990 all major party lost agenda ,as india was very corrupt..no party could gain absolute majority....
so this led to mandal commission:to give reservation to OBC(other backward caste in govt services)...SC/ST already enjoyed 22.5% reservation...so political party started using caste and religion to play politics...


so Congress took up mulslim issue to a[ppease them...this created BJP and BJP took hindu issue and after babri (in which they used local goondas and lafangas to demolish and played hindu cards on name of rama)...and they got votes of illiterate people....so they came in power in 1999...then gujrat issue which was initiated by killing of 200 BJP hindu members caused communal violence....but hindus stopped voting on religion as people had become more literate and hindus are peaceful and generally not much religious ..and they have become more pro development...so now


congress and bjp both are pro-development...BJP also removed ram temple issue and now recently Congress wanted to create some navigation ways in indian ocean near rameshwaram where hindus believe there exists a RAma setu pul which rama used to reach srilanka..so We have a DMK leader who totally humiliated rama god...and again BJP will take advantage of issue ..but this issue is not communal and has nothing 2do with muslim...

politics in india is too complex..and politicans did a lot of damage to society but now media is developed and they cant spread communal riots and Indian law is too strict ...and now BJP has also started appeasing muslims ..so they dropped Rama agenda in ayodhya...
Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:55 am View user's profile Send private message
@nline
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1833

Re: online Reply with quote
rohit_bangalore wrote:
Quote:
So you are wating for Israel support to attck on Pakistan when BJP will come in power Laughing


ya isreal is expert in dealing with terrorism........and india had no option but to be an ally of israel coz OIC didnt give membership to india even we have +16 crore muslim ...


and OIC supported kashmiri terrorism just on 1 basis ,they are all islamic country..


so once full world USA,OIC and all muslim country were against india for sake of it...BUt now they are hitting their own head after facing the reality....

OIC didnt know so much things about terrorism in pakistan...Now they must be feeling bad for they infuriated india by supporting pak on kashmir which was their wrong stance....and they are feeling infuriated now..


but indians are very peaceful people...we dont believe in tit for tat strategy....BUt i heard OIC wants india to become member while they dumped us in 1990s........


i never told indians will fight pakistan or any country.....india wll take help of isreal to sabotage the terrorists in india/kashmir..

and now we have the most advanced satellite ...india still dont need any country to fight pakistan which all of u know in our prev history(1971)////


but we need them to fight our terrorism ...and israel and palestine are getting good now...and india also wants peaceful settlement of palestine.......


I am don`t agree with you at all that OIC or anybody else wanted or want to support India
regarding Kashmir issue. rohit_banglore I were more than twice in Kashmir and those people says
that "We will NEVER EVER be a part of India" Its not a joke. They said that since 1983 indian army killed'our more than
100.000 innocents people. Young ladies were raped front of their father and brother. Is that a humanaty Evil or Very Mad
Your army is one of the biggest army in Asia. Then why you require any support by Israel or anyone else Question
Yoy say that there is terrorists in Kashmir. I say that there are Freedom Fighter in Kashmir as well as in Assam & MAO.

Now to 1971 history. Banglai always wanted their own home land. RAW did a major part in this war and
they helped Bangali to get theor own satate. When I go back to history and read lots lots of articals regarding 1971 war
then I am gree that Bangladesh should be an independentstate. Well they are muslim too. But huge huge diffrences between
us. Forget 1971. Talk about today.

Why India NEVER dare to attack Pakistan again Question

Now the situation is much diffrence "rohit_banglore"!!!

We don`t care that your country will get support by USA or Israel to attack Pakistan. Because both
countries are now Nuclear power. [ Forget who have less or more Nuclear bomb ] Because Nuclear
war is much danger than any other war.

Don`t wait til BJP comes into power. Who knows that they are looser again.

But one thing is clear that Pakistan don`t have the situation now like 1971.

Yes, we are suffring terrorisam in Pakistan. But that comes from India.
Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:13 am View user's profile Send private message
rohit_bangalore
Indian Propaganda
Indian Propaganda


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 781

online Reply with quote
Quote:
I am don`t agree with you at all that OIC or anybody else wanted or want to support India
regarding Kashmir issue. rohit_banglore I were more than twice in Kashmir and those people says
that "We will NEVER EVER be a part of India" Its not a joke. They said that since 1983 indian army killed'our more than
100.000 innocents people. Young ladies were raped front of their father and brother. Is that a humanaty Evil or Very Mad
Your army is one of the biggest army in Asia. Then why you require any support by Israel or anyone else Question
Yoy say that there is terrorists in Kashmir. I say that there are Freedom Fighter in Kashmir as well as in Assam & MAO.



OIC is nothing infront of india..does it have any might to face india??India is very strong mr online ,politically ,economically and ethically...and OIC has no say in world politics...its a place where people fight about danish cartoon and stupid things which are of no threat to even smaller country like holland and sweden...
Quote:

rohit_banglore I were more than twice in Kashmir and those people says
that "We will NEVER EVER be a part of India" Its not a joke. They said that since 1983 indian army killed'our more than
100.000 innocents people. Young ladies were raped front of their father and brother. Is that a humanaty Evil or Very Mad
Your army is one of the biggest army in Asia.


accha u went to indian kashmir???how did u go??intruded??and people in ajad kashmir have only terrorism contact with indian kashmir......well indian army marched after 1988 once pakistan started operation zibraltar by sending 10000 terrorists ...and before 1988,kashmir was the best place in india for tourism and cottage industy...what a sad event for kashmir??u sent terrorists and they are suffering...ya there are human rights violation..but thats part of india...and can u tel me about wajiristan,FAta and karanchi riots.....are they good things happening?kashmir is integral part of india...


and who cares about people who only think from religion point of view...but this story is sad mr online...

go now..they will be saying...this pakistan is worse place....they are full of terrorits and now govt killing them...atleast india is not killing if people are pro india and peaceful...evryone is seeing pakistan mr online..so is kashmiris....i had soem kashmiris friends who studied and work with me nd they are postive about india...The way we are progressing,,, and as the terrorism is at decline(90% reduced),govt of india will spend some billion of $ and they will be better than ful pakistanis population .....we knw how to win hearts mr online....its economy...and i talk 2 my frend and he also hates pakistan for creating such situation in kashmir coz he is educated and u seem to be not....


well assam terrorism has no public support
compared to some kashmiri who do support ......so ap assam ko to darkinar hi kar do..they are also over...our army is getitng help from public who are annoyed by ULFA and they have run away to bangladesh ...and u might have read soem clashes bwteen india and bangla ...that was coz of those terorrists mr online...bangaldesh was given warning and later some reward for helpin india...and ULFa is on the mercy of indian army...they are surrendering....

Quote:

Why India NEVER dare to attack Pakistan again Question

Now the situation is much diffrence "rohit_banglore"!!!

We don`t care that your country will get support by USA or Israel to attack Pakistan. Because both
countries are now Nuclear power. [ Forget who have less or more Nuclear bomb ] Because Nuclear
war is much danger than any other war.

Don`t wait til BJP comes into power. Who knows that they are looser again.

But one thing is clear that Pakistan don`t have the situation now like 1971.


ur bomb is in control of USA mr online...and india is developing anti missiles system mr online..which wil be inducted by 2010 mr online and we can shoot all ur missiles like birds mr online....not even 1 piece will reach india...and even china doesnt have that system mr online and china doesnt sell quality technology to pakistan ..coz china is also afraid of islamic terrorism whch s increasing in xiazing province of china

Quote:

Yes, we are suffring terrorisam in Pakistan. But that comes from India.

u r dreaming mr online....ur own born terrorists and taliwan who are on the target of musharraf for the war against terrorism are killing u.....or u so ignorant mr online...and then i can post u todays news from some neutral sources..but ur article is all from pak media and from soem us media that2 some 10+years old....grow up online..see around....
Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:37 am View user's profile Send private message
@nline
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1833

Reply with quote
Laughing
Well, you are just doing your duty even your all messages & news are FAKE.
That I understand. Keep dreaming. Wink
Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:42 am View user's profile Send private message
@nline
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1833

Reply with quote
"Israel now has become a hot favorite of the Sangh Parivar-Vajpayee, Advani, and other BJP leaders have frequented the country to show their support for the ferociously anti-Arab nation. Attempts have often been made, allegedly, to iron out the Sangh's previously bitter relationships with USA via the mediation of Israel. Note the irony here-a Hitler-admiring organization is having a mutual love-fest with the one nation that has the most reason on earth to despise anything that even remotely seeks of Hitler and the Nazi party. "

Don`t use glasses. I can help you to read it a better way.
Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:45 am View user's profile Send private message
@nline
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1833

Reply with quote
For me BJP is wrost than Nazi Hitler time.
Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:46 am View user's profile Send private message
rohit_bangalore
Indian Propaganda
Indian Propaganda


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 781

online Reply with quote
Tumarhe kehne se kya hoga mr online.


for me they are the best party if they leave religious matter...

the party has expert and most educated politicians...so has congress

but congress is blackmailed by CPI

so i prefer BJP as they are nationalistic and they know how to fight with terrorism..

BUt Mr online...in india both these party work for development ....
Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:00 am View user's profile Send private message
rohit_bangalore
Indian Propaganda
Indian Propaganda


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 781

India to have defence missile shield in 2 years Reply with quote
(Nanowerk News) Within two years, India will have in its armoury a full fledged ballistic missile defence (BMD) system that can neutralise enemy missiles headed for its shores.
The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is also gearing up to fit Agni-III to non-conventional (nuclear) warheads.
Revealing these details on Monday, DRDO Hyderabad programme director VK Saraswat said, “Agni-III can chase targets within a range of 3,000 km. The DRDO is working on developing the missile to destroy targets 5,000 km away. The BMD system will enable us to intercept and destroy enemy missiles within three minutes after they are detected on our radar.”
Speaking on ‘Missile Technology in the 21st century’ on the final day of the 95th Indian Science Congress, he said future defence systems will rely mostly on nanotechnology, bio-technology and information technology.
“Information technology will play a key role and soon the ‘ebomb’ would be a reality. It can destroy all electronic devices within its range when it is dropped in an area. Future missiles will be smaller, smarter, autonomous, lighter and cheaper,” he predicted.
The DRDO is developing a short-range missile system to launch short-range missiles from any platform including surface, air and water. Among the other credits of the DRDO are beyond visual range air to air missiles and the surface-to-surface Nag missiles.
On the entry of private players into the defence sector, Saraswat welcomed the development and exuded confidence that the private sector will be equally responsible when it comes to national security.
However, he felt the private sector needs to graduate from component manufacturing stage to sub-system and system development. He opined that entry of private companies would solve the problem of manpower shortage in the industry.
Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:04 am View user's profile Send private message
@nline
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1833

rohit_banglore Reply with quote
Kawa Chala Hans Ki Chaal.

teri missal bhi kooch aissi hi hai. Laughing
Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:13 am View user's profile Send private message
rohit_bangalore
Indian Propaganda
Indian Propaganda


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 781

Anti-ballistic missile Reply with quote
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Countries with ABM capability

U.S.A
A renewed interest in missile defense coincided with the election of President George W. Bush in 2000. In several tests, the U.S. military has demonstrated the feasibility of shooting down long and short range ballistic missiles. Combat effectiveness of newer systems against tactical ballistic missiles seems very high, as the Patriot PAC-3 had a 100% success rate in Operation Iraqi Freedom[citation needed]. However NMD real-world effectiveness against longer range ICBMs is less clear because they are much faster and a single warhead much harder to hit. Furthermore, warheads are likely to be accompanied by sophisticated penetration aids that are difficult to defeat.

While the Reagan era Strategic Defense Initiative was intended to shield against a massive Soviet attack, the current National Missile Defense has the more limited goal of shielding against a limited attack by a rogue state.

The Bush administration has accelerated development and deployment of a system proposed in 1998 by the Clinton administration. The system is a dual purpose test and interception facility in Alaska, and as of 2006 is operational with a few interceptor missiles. The Alaska site provides more protection against North Korean missiles or accidental launches from Russia or China, but is likely less effective against missiles launched from the Middle East. The Alaska interceptors may be later augmented by the naval Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System, by ground-based missiles in other locations, or by the Boeing Airborne Laser. President Bush has referenced the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attacks and the proliferation of ballistic missiles as reasons for missile defense.


Russia
Apart from the Moscow ABM deployment during the Cold War, Russia has actively striven for intrinsic ABM capabilities in its late model SAM systems. Russian ABM capable systems include the following:

* S-300P (SA-10)
* S-300V (SA-12)
* S-300PMU-1/2 (SA-20)
* S-400 (SA-21)
* S-500 „Самодержец”
* ABM-1 Galosh[7][8]
* ABM-3 Gazelle[9]
* ABM-4 Gorrgon[10]


Israel



The Arrow project got underway after the U.S. and Israel agreed to co-fund it on May 6, 1986.[4].

The Arrow ABM system was designed and constructed in Israel with financial support by the United States in a multi-billion dollar development program called "Minhelet Homa" with the participation of companies like Israel Military Industries, Tadiran and Israel Aerospace Industries.

In 1998 the Israeli military conducted a successful test of their Arrow ABM. Designed to intercept incoming missiles travelling at up to 2 mile/s (3 km/s), the Arrow is expected to perform much better than the Patriot did in the Gulf War. On July 29, 2004 Israel and the United States carried out joint experiment in the USA, in which the Arrow was launched against a real Scud missile. The experiment was a success, as the Arrow destroyed the Scud with a direct hit. In December 2005 the system was successfully deployed in a test against a replicated Shahab-3 missile. This feat was repeated on February 11, 2007.[5]

India

india has an active ABM development effort using indigenously developed and integrated radars and locally designed missiles.[11] In November of 2006, India successfully conducted the PADE (Prithvi Air Defence Exercise) in which an Anti-ballistic missile, called the Prithvi Air Defense (PAD) an Exoatmospheric (outside the atmosphere) interceptor system intercepted a Prithvi-II ballistic missile. The PAD missile has the secondary stage of the Prithvi missile and can reach altitude of 80 km. During the test the target missile was intercepted at an 50 km altitude.[12] India became the fourth nation in the world to acquire such a capability and the third nation to develop it through indigenous effort.[13] On 6th December 2007 the Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile system was tested successfully.[14] This missile is an Endo atmospheric interceptor with an altitude of 30 km. According to scientist V K Saraswat of DRDO the missiles will work in tandem to ensure a hit probability of 99.8 percent.[15] Induction of the system into services is expected to be in 2010. Two new anti ballistic missiles that can intercept IRBM/ICBMs are being developed. These high speed missiles (AD-1 and AD-2) is being developed to intercept ballistic missiles with the range of 5000 km.[16] The test trials of these system is expected to take place in 2009/2010.
Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:03 am View user's profile Send private message
rohit_bangalore
Indian Propaganda
Indian Propaganda


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 781

online Reply with quote
In world only

USA,Russia ,isreal and india has the capability..


even china,uk,france and japan doesn have..........

read it:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ballistic_missile
Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:04 am View user's profile Send private message
@nline
Senior Proud Pakistani
Senior Proud Pakistani


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1833

Reply with quote
What I writte or shown about BJP is true.
You have to accept it.
Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:18 am View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:    
Reply to topic    Forum Pakistan - Pakistani Forums Home » World News and Events All times are GMT + 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Gupshup Forum: Urdu ForumIslam ForumPakistan Army ForumAap Ka SheharNaukaryPakistani Visa
Desi Sports and News: Live CricketSports ForumAkhbar OnlinePakistan EventsWorld News Discussion
Entertainment Media: PTV ForumGEO ForumLollywood ForumBollywood OnlineHollywood ForumDesi Radio
Desi Masala Forums: Gupshup Chit ChatComputer GamesMusic ForumDrama ForumsGhazal ForumDesi FashionDesi Food
Official Forums (Government Department): Dak Khana ChatPolice ForumWapda OnlinePTCL ForumUfone ForumRailway ForumSehat Chit ChatTaleem OnlineTax Forum PKZameen ForumAdalat Forum


Pure Pakistani forum to express your views, thoughts with complete freedom. Archives 1 2

Copyright © ForumPakistan.com.pk 2020 All rights reserved.

Contact Us | Advertise | Report Abuse | FP Team | Disclaimer

Close x